The Corporate Diversity Tipping Point with Dee C. Marshall

Mentioned in this episode:

• Diverse and Engaged

• LinkedIn
• Story about Amy Cooper
• Intergenerational Trauma:
  • https://www.apa.org/monitor/2019/02/legacy-trauma
  • https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20190326-what-is-epigenetics
• Origins of Policing
• Redlining

Transcript:

Andrea: Hey there!  It’s Andrea, and welcome to the Voice of Influence podcast.  I’ve got a question for you? Have you ever felt misunderstood? Like someone is making assumptions about you? Like they don’t really know you? Is it possible at some point in your life maybe that you have made assumptions about someone else? I know that I’ve been on both sides of that coin before. I’ve heard other people talk about feeling misunderstood and how much they hate it. And I personally just bristle at the thought of somebody assuming things about me that aren’t true. I don’t care whether they’re positive things or negative things I just, I don’t like that idea. And yet, I know that in the rush of conversation or through my own ignorance sometimes, I’ve done this to others too. On this show, and in our consulting firm, Voice of Influence, we believe that people carry more influence when they acknowledge others for who they really are and in the process of making the world better for everyone, we really all benefit from self awareness. And this self awareness that sometimes feels very uncomfortable, especially at first, this self awareness is incredibly empowering in the end. But it can be really uncomfortable. Learning and growing and being a light in the world, is worth the pain and discomfort we feel when we realize for ourselves that maybe things aren’t quite what we thought they were. Can you relate to that? Have you experienced that in your own life? That maybe a point in your life that you really realized something about yourself and how maybe it was even a negative impact that you were having on others. But when you realized it, you were able to make a change and that change was something for the better. And maybe it’s something you’re much better at now. I’m guessing that you’ve done that because if you listen to this show, you’re into self awareness. You understand that understanding ourselves and the kind of impact we have on others, makes a difference on the kind of influence that we can have. So today might be one of those days for some of us. Today on the show because we are having a conversation around issues of race and racism with somebody that I really respect. Her name is Dee C. Marshall. Now I’m gonna tell you a little about Dee in a minute, but, my husband I actually met and had dinner with her a few years ago and have continued to stay in contact and have recently saw her at another conference just a few weeks ago since doing this interview. So it’s really fun to see her again. Aaron and I have really appreciated learning from her and her message. 

Dee Marshall is the CEO of Diverse and Engaged. She is an award winning business owner, influence and thought leader on equity, diversity and inclusion across industries. In fact, some of her awards include; named in the top 50 people of color influencers by ROI, The Future of Black America top 50, top 25 influential black women in business by Network Journal, top 25 leading women entrepreneurs by LWE and the board chair for the National Association for Equity, Diversity and Inclusion. You can read more about her at diverseandengaged.com. I’m thrilled to introduce you to Dee and the work that she’s doing and the message that she shares because we all need to understand different perspectives. If this is not your perspective, which it might be, but if it is not, I encourage you to really listen, consider and see what we can do to come to the conversation with more understanding and empathy and cultural context so that we can really make a difference when it comes to diversity and inclusion. Here’s my conversation with Dee Marshall. 

Today, I have with me Dee Marshall.  And I’m excited, Dee, to introduce you to our audience.  You are, I’d say, just like almost a literal rock star except for figurative, I guess.  So, it’s really great to have you here, and I’m excited to introduce you to our audience.

Dee C Marshall:  Well, thank you for having me!  I’m excited to be here!

Andrea:   And you have obviously evolved over time, your voice, your influence, your Voice of Influence, if you will, has evolved over time.  And this is where you’re at right now.  But for those of us who are sitting here going, “How in the world does one get to that point?”  You weren’t born and with all of these honors.  So, do you want to share a little bit about the background of the evolution of your Voice of Influence?

Dee C Marshall:  Yeah, yeah, you know what, I love the question and I love the podcast and the brand.  So, yeah, you know, I really started, I would say, early in my career, in my adult life, I had a defining moment.  And the defining moment was after September 11, you know, I worked on Wall Street.  And that was really a defining moment having worked in New York City on September 11, during, you know, at the time where there was a terrorist attack.

And the day after became a defining moment in my life.  And I think that was the beginning of this journey to your point how I got from where I was working, you know, in a nine to five, a typical traditional sort of work life.  I mean, I love the work that I did back then.  But that’s a long way from where I am now.  You know, back then I worked in training and development and I didn’t know my passion.  I didn’t know my purpose at the time, but I quickly found out.  So, my journey has been a defining moment that led me down the path of seeking more meaning and purpose for my life.

And in pursuing more meaning and purpose for my life, I found my passion.  I found my purpose and I found my voice.  And I think whenever you pursue your purpose or meaning and purpose for your life, that’s when you find your voice, and you begin to attract other people and become, you know, an influencer, if you will.

And so, you know, I gave you the beginning or the defining moment that really launched me into a journey of, you know, I found ministry Girlfriends Pray over 100,000 women following, right?  And that became part of building a voice.  You know, I’d done a television show many years ago.  I was the coach on the show, that became the beginning of me finding my voice.  Let’s see, you know, and from there, I began speaking around the country.  And that, you know, was part of me, finding my voice and building influence.

So, I would say, again, from going into my nine-to-five job that I loved in training and development., I was in leadership development.  And then walking this path of finding my voice, it just became pursuing meaning and purpose.  And then everything kind of stacked from there because people watch and they follow, and they listen.  And I think people want to follow people who are following their heart.  People will follow when you are doing meaningful work or doing work that you love, at least.  It doesn’t even have to be anything significant.  So, I hope that answers the question in terms of where and how I started.

Andrea:  Oh, yeah, I love it!  And it’s always interesting to me to see people grow and change.  It’s not like we start out knowing exactly what we want to say.  It’s not like we start out with the same kind of conviction in our voice that we have later on.  And I think that’s part of what I was really enjoying seeing with you.  You always had some, I guess, conviction and clarity, but it seems to have even, you know, strengthened since then.

Dee C Marshall:  Yeah, yeah.  And can I tell you a secret, I was painfully shy, like at that starting point of what I just shared with you.  When I worked on Wall Street, like one of my first jobs, I was painfully shy up until, again, young 20s.  But even when I worked on Wall Street, like during this defining moment, which was the sort of the launching pad, you know, I still have my own insecurities.  I didn’t have a voice.  I didn’t know my voice.  I didn’t know my passion.

So, I can track back to that.  So, I would love to say, “Oh, no,” by the time I got to my first corporate job, that, you know, I was clear on my voice.  And, you know, I had friends or a following.  And the truth is I didn’t, so it really unfolded during my early part of my life, and it unfolded overtime.  But that being painfully shy and somewhat insecure, definitely insecure, having my own insecurities was definitely there.  So, this has all come over time, over time.  It’s a process to find your voice.

Andrea:  So, having been recognized for the things that you’ve been recognized for and being in positions of influence around this topic of race and diversity, it’s got to feel like a weighty responsibility, I mean, would you agree with that?  Does it feel like a weighty responsibility?  Or how do you feel about that?

Dee C Marshall:  Yeah, yeah.  I mean, I think if the question is, is there a weight or a heaviness, in the work that we do around diversity and addressing systemic racism in the workplace, you know, I don’t necessarily feel the weight of it in the work.  I do feel the heaviness of just that it’s a thing and it’s an experience.

In the world that we live, in this country, you know, one of the wealthiest in the world, that we have issues of differences, issues of race, systemic racism and racism, you know, against all people, but absolutely black people in such a different way that there’s just no comparison.  So, I do feel though the weight of that and the heaviness of being a black woman.  But I don’t feel the weight in the work.  I feel really empowered in the work that I and my company, we get to be part of the solution.  So, yeah.  Does that make that sense?

Andrea:  Oh, yeah, yeah.  It does makes sense.  So, I think that one of the things that I’ve heard you talk about is that there has been an evolution in the way that we talk about and approach diversity and engagement.  And you’re calling it something like 3.0 right now.  Can you share with us what that means and what you’ve seen?

Dee C Marshall:  Sure, sure.  So, I would say in terms of diversity and inclusion 3.0, as of May 25th, or, you know, we’d like to say May of 2020, after George Floyd was murdered, Corporate America for the very first time did something that they had never done before.  And that is acknowledging that Black Lives do Matter, acknowledging and identifying or amplifying, we are anti-racist, and that had never been done, and so that was a shift in Corporate America.  And we call that shift, diversity and inclusion 3.0 at the diversity tipping point.

So, we coined the term, the diversity tipping point and that was May of 2020, after George Floyd was murdered, God rest his soul.  And that’s where, for the very first time, black people in Corporate America could be black and just identified as black.  Because prior to that, Andrea, before it was D&I 3.0, you can be identified or really amplified your blackness beyond the black ERG or the black BRG, the employee resource group.  So, there is and many companies in this country, they start with an ERG.  And so D&I 3.0 at the onset of this, we call it the diversity tipping point and it essentially means, we were, amid a global reckoning of racism against black people, in this country. 

It was global because around the planet, people were protesting in outrage as a result of one individual or really several individuals Breonna Taylor and Ahmaud Arbery, but it was really just where the pin, you know, certainly pulled from the grenade.  And so that is how we define D&I 3.0, because prior to D&I 3.0, the season that we were in was a focus on gender diversity, where women were leading in diversity and inclusion.  Women were the focus.  It was gender diversity at D&I 2.0 and gender diversity as a result of the post #MeToo movement.  So, an outcome of #MeToo, were women really winning and stepping up and they’re being, you know, a huge receptivity to gender diversity.

But at the diversity tipping point, which is 3.0, the focus became race and ethnicity and specifically, you know, black talent, black community.  And so that is what we mean by D&I 3.0 the diversity tipping point where companies really then focus their efforts on black communities’ large donations and charitable giving into civil rights organizations and social justice organizations.  Definitely, a unifying time in this country to some extent, I like to see it that way, where it was an all hands on deck, people of all races, all races, all backgrounds were protesting to say, this is insane.  And so that’s D&I 3.0.

Andrea:  Hmm.  You know, going from 2.0 to 3.0, from the way that you describe that, it sounds a little bit also like that the people who are in focus are feeling empowered to be able to share their voice and are, actually, feeling a little bit more heard.  Would you agree that that’s what’s happening?

Dee C Marshall:  Yeah, absolutely.  Absolutely.  I couldn’t agree with you more that, you know, prior to this there have been movements to try or to amplify voices.  And none of the movements had the reaction that we were able to see, you know, in May of 2020.  And I think it was largely because it was a perfect storm, Andrea, I mean, the most unprecedented time because I’ve been asked, “Why do you think that happened?”  And what happened, because, certainly, black people have been killed prior to that and on camera, but why?

And it was a perfect storm because the entire world was shut down.  The world was shut down.  And the world had time on their hands.  Nobody could go to work.  We couldn’t go out.  And so, you were forced to watch, right?  And then the media, they just looped it, right?  And so, a perfect storm on a loop.  Nobody could go anywhere, so you’re watching and mothers everywhere heard.  They heard the voice of their child.  All they heard is mom, and that pierced the hearts of women everywhere and dads, and people.

Andrea:  So, what are you seeing happen in a very practical way, in companies now?  How is this actually making a difference now?  What are they trying to do?

Dee C Marshall:  Yeah.  I think it’s making a difference now, because, you know, we’re moving on.  But corporations are looking at themselves, you know, they were initially making a lot of external or putting a lot of external energy into, like, consumer engagement and corporate and social responsibility and, you know, private public partnerships, and everything that was externally facing.  I think what we’re seeing now is organizations are making commitments internally as well, which is where there was a big flag and a big miss.

In fact, a lot of corporations were getting some criticism about performative D&I, where they were doing everything because, you know, it was the requisite thing to do to apologize.  You better say something, say something about black people.  And, yeah, so we are seeing organizations to double down and double back on their commitments to making their workplace a place where all people are welcome.  I mean, that’s some of the work that we do.  So, Diverse and Engage, we are called in to do things from training.

You know, I hate to just say training because it’s more than training that has to happen, but a lot of companies are focusing on educating their workforce.  They’re moving from things like bias training, which bias is not a diversity strategy.  Bias training is not a strategy and ERG is not a diversity strategy, but they’re doing more things at least with us they call us because they know that we do the surface work, and we do the systemic work.

Surface work might be cultural competence.  We have allyship.  We have D&I champion programming specifically for executive level leaders.  So, we see more of that where before D&I 3.0, you know, companies some more focusing on that, but not all.  We also are seeing more requests to go deeper.  And that’s new, more requests to look at systemic issues.  So, we have a tool, a methodology called _____.  It’s the Amy Cooper effect.  And just really using that as a model to acknowledge, denounce, and dismantle systemic racism.

Andrea:  Within the company itself?

Dee C Marshall:  Within the corporation.  We go into Corporation.  And for those who may not be aware now, certainly, Amy Cooper was a story that also unfolded on the same day that George Floyd was murdered.  Amy Cooper and the story of Christian Cooper, Amy Cooper, a white woman who used her whiteness as a weapon to call police on, you know, a black man who could have lost his life.  I mean, that’s a story.

And, Andrea, you may or may not know this, but that just pierced our hearts as black people, because I don’t know if your listeners are familiar with Emmett Till, but that what Amy Cooper did.  It’s a trigger of sorts, because Emmett Till was a young boy who was killed because of a similar thing that happened in the 60s.  But we use that as a model.  And what I mean by that is, you know, Amy Cooper worked in Corporate America, she worked for a super conservative hedge fund, _____ firm.  And they released her.  They fired her.  Now, Amy Cooper had apologized, so let’s just say that, but they fired her.

Now, I’m going to do a sidebar here, Andrea, because they should have but I could argue for all of us.  I can argue for black people and black community because I am black.  But I can also argue and make the case for women.  Andrea, she got fired.  She’s a woman, but did you fire the man who did the same thing, right?  Do you see what I’m saying?  I could argue and make the case for women her being the fall guy.  Do you see where I’m going with this, because Franklin Templeton has been criticized that they would allow for a white cisgender male to do the same thing, but they didn’t fire him.  But when it’s a woman, do you see what I’m saying?

Andrea:  I do, and I really get that.  It’s part of the reason why because she was caught on camera.  Is that part of it?

Dee C Marshall:  I think so.

Andrea:  Yeah.

Dee C Marshall:  So, yeah, I think so.  I think so.  But like I said, I can argue both of being a black woman, but I can also argue a point for women that you fired her because she’s a woman.  We’ve already had these issues.  This has come up before.  You didn’t fire Bob, but you are going to fire Amy and let her be the fall guy.  But my point is what we learned from Amy Cooper is she worked in Corporate America.

So, now we know that racism exists, because she is an example of that.  And now, we just follow her path back to Corporate America, her job and all of the touch points of where she would have had influence.  She would have been on sourcing or hiring make panel.  So, she would have made a decision if I was going in for a job.  She would have been perhaps, you know, if I went for a performance review, probably, and I work for Franklin Templeton, she was in that process.  

And then if I went for a promotion or a new job, you know, she’s probably in that process.  So, we have that as a framework, a model.  It’s called the _____ methodology, where we look at five core areas to identify where there may be systemic racism that is contributing to what’s showing up in Corporate America and leading to the issues around diversity, hiring, promotion, performance appraisals and reviews, and so on and so forth.  So, we’re seeing and I’m going to go back to your original question, we are seeing corporations raise their hand for, “We need to go deeper, and we need to address racism internally.”  So that’s what we’re seeing.

Andrea:  And to have them say “We’re gonna put time and energy and resources toward something that’s deeper, not just throw training at it.”

Dee C Marshall:  Yeah,

Andrea:  Training is good. 

Dee C Marshall:  It is, it is.  But it doesn’t fix our current issues.  It’s definitely racism.  In fact, to be quite honest, Andrea, diversity and inclusion is really not the solution to where we are in this.  It really is.  Diversity means its representation.  Inclusion just means the culture, the environment, that’s it.  It doesn’t necessarily get to the core.  It’s a process.  It didn’t take us, you know, a year to get to where we are now in terms of systemic racism in the workplace.

So, it’s not going to take us a year.  It’s unreasonable for us to think that all will be well overnight.  It just isn’t.  It’s going to be a process, so we have to start baby steps.  If you all, look Corporate America OneSearch diversity inclusion, okay, so we start there, or we go back there.  They want to address, you know, culture, inclusion and belonging, okay.?  You know, Andrea, some organizations are looking at justice, equity, diversity and inclusion.  Their acronym is called JEDI, right?

And I’ll just say this, we don’t need to get caught up in what we call it, just fix it.  It doesn’t matter where you put the diversity or where you put the inclusion.  Is it I&D, D&I, is it in JEDI, or is it culture, or is it inclusion?  But it doesn’t matter?  It’s labels and language, and it just doesn’t matter.

Andrea:  Hmm, yeah.  So, if diversity inclusion isn’t the answer, but you’re willing to start there, I understand that.  I mean, what is the answer?

Dee C Marshall:  Yeah, you know, the answer is, it’s a process that is going to take time, overtime, but it really is addressing, I’m going to say acknowledging, denouncing and dismantling systemic racism.  Because what that does, Andrea, and I’ll just say this to you, as my white girl sister friend, which we have stayed together and connected over the few years since we met and had dinner and, because systemic racism gets beyond if the issue is an Amy Cooper, right?  It gets beyond if Amy Cooper is racist.  The systemic racism just looks 1at the system, not the people.

And I’m going to give you an example, because you’re asking the question, where do we start, what will fix it?  You have to address the system.  So, let’s look at policing.  So, I’ve been in conversations with around reimagining the police or defunding the police.  And it’s been a loving circle that I was in conversation with my white girl sister friends who put together a fireside community to support like really allies, right?  They put together a loving community.

And I said to them, I said, “You know, let me give you perspective about police, and policing and why you all are, for the first time, just seeing how black people are really treated differently.  It’s because, Andrea, I don’t know if you knew this, but they didn’t know this.  I said, “You know, guys, the policing system is not broken, and it doesn’t need to be fixed, because it’s not broken.  It’s working the way it was designed to work.”  I’m going to say this again, because in that room, some of my _____ sister friends, they had husbands who were police, right?  And so, we want to take my girlfriend’s husband out of the picture that he is a police officer.  He’s a good guy, right?

So, we’re saying policing, not police, policing, the system is working the way it was designed.  Policing, the system was designed to catch runaway slaves.  It’s documented.  That’s the origins of policing.  So, the system is not broken.  The system is working the way it was designed.  My _____ said “Dee, how do you know that?  I said, “Girl, it’s documented.  You can Google, it’s not even hidden.”  I said.  So, now, the way it plays out is it’s embedded into the system.

So, you see even Andrea if you have a distant cousin or friend, your white brother, white cousin friend.  Now, don’t get me wrong, there are some who are racist, right?  But there might there are some, Andrea, they work for a system that is racist.  So, it’s embedded.  So, when they naturally see a black person, it’s embedded.  Their trigger is different than if they see a white person because the system was designed.  And even though we have civil rights acts and laws that, you know, attempted to right size black people and slaves, there was never an effort to correct policing that was built on.

If you see a black person Dee Marshall, if you see her hanging out with Andrea, you are to get her back, okay?  And so, there was never a process to fix that.  It was just a law, but there was never a process.  So, anyway, I don’t want to belabor it.  But I know that at least my white sister friends and brothers, they say it’s helpful to hear, because we weren’t taught, we weren’t educated.

And so, I just want to say, even for people listening and you’re shocked or you’re feeling some kind of way, look, we are all in this together alive.  This was not part of our history.  It’s painful.  It’s awkward, but we’re here now.  And what’s helpful is that we just pick up these little nuggets as we go and try to learn, you know, all that we can and do better or ask ourselves the question, what can I do, or at least just being educated.  It helps to validate and you know what my experience of my privilege?  I can’t get defensive about it.  But I’m going to stop there not to belabor it, but was that helpful, Andrea?

Andrea:  Oh, right.  Yeah, yeah, sure, systemic racism, to be able to help people to see, including myself, but help everybody to be able to see how it was embedded, and that it was birthed out of that.  And so, there’s a natural way that it grows up.  I remember, a couple years ago, I think maybe you had a post, and you’ve had taken a picture of yourself on the airplane.  And you were talking about how a white woman had asked you if you could trade seats so that she could sit by her friend?

Dee C Marshall:  Yes.

Andrea:  And I was so glad that you posted this because you told her no.  And then you proceeded to, on this post, you explained to us why you said no.  And that was something that I didn’t know or didn’t understand or wouldn’t have thought of until you said it.  And I was so glad that you did.  Would you tell us a little bit about that?

Dee C Marshall:  Yeah, and thanks for asking, because this is how we learn.  One of my previous coaches, she said, she did the same thing.  And she said she felt horrible, but she didn’t know.  I mean, she was emotional.  But the reason, and I’m getting emotional thinking about it, and this is, I think, a learning for all of us, because what naturally showed up in me, in my spirit was a defense in like, how dare you?  And here’s why, Andrea, it’s because we have cultural trauma, although I didn’t live in the 60s, right?  And this is something that we are, I think, we’re now learning.

We, as black people, have cultural trauma embedded, and what is literally a psychological term that says that embedded in our DNA is the trauma of slavery.  It’s transferred over generations far removed from actually being slaves, that it’s embedded in us, right?  And so, when she asked that, it was a trigger of her being entitled and a confrontation, and how dare she, and being less than, and I don’t even know that on the surface that bothers me.

I think what’s showing up is cultural trauma of how just remembering, right?  We were deemed less than, you know, a third less, or third part human.  And so, that’s what that meant, because I’ve given up my seat when I’ve seen parents with kids, or if I saw you on your honey.  Let me let me tell you how that would have worked differently, Andrea.  If I saw you and your honey, and I saw y’all separate.  I would say, “I don’t mind switching seats with you.”  I promise you; I have done that before.  But the audacity of her asking, it came from a place of entitlement and it triggered something.

So, that’s what that was about.  It triggered something that she would ask me and inconvenience me as if I don’t matter because she wants to sit with her friend.  Do you see, there’s a lot coming up?  But if they were talking over the seats, it could have been I’d offer but let me offer.  In fact, let me say this for everybody who’s listening, who may not understand it.  When you ask a black person to get up, they could be Gen Z.  If they react in a kind of way, it could be cultural trauma from the Bus Boycott, and when Harriet Tubman was asked to give up her seat and arrested.

And so, that’s what shows up where we don’t even know it, there’s a little nervous energy and because this could go, Andrea.  And, you know, I’m feeling emotional now because nowadays, that sort of encounter and then if I decline or if say something awkward today, that’s getting us arrested and killed.  Like we kept today, in 2021 when we make a wrong move, a wrong move and it’s resulting today in us losing our lives.

And, you know, I thank you, and I love that you are inviting this courageous conversation on the Voice of Influence podcast, and I love that we can have it as friends and colleagues.  But yeah, so that’s what that meant, and I posted.  And you know what, I’ve also shared feedback when, let’s say, a white person has asked me to do something or done something offensive, I have also shared, “Hey, I just want to let you know that if this was another person, it could play out differently.”

I have lovingly said that, whether it’s a bump or whether it’s a fence, or something that I know was innocent.  It was not intentional.  I said, “Hey, I just wanna let you know.”  And that is like, assuming that I work at the store, like I’ve been asked that, “Where is the so and so?”  “Excuse me, why would you be asking me that?”  And then just sharing, because I knew it was an educational moment.  And I knew that if I was a different kind of black woman, you would see how we’re pitched or how we are presented in media, “She’s an angry black woman.”

And so now, folks who are listening, and if this is an opportunity to learn, just think about how that term angry black woman, if you’ve ever heard that.  So, now, you know, “Oh, they’re not angry.”  What’ s showing up is, there’s tension in the world that we live in.  And let me just say this, we are living in the best of times, I’m going to say that for raising the vibration.  We live in one of the wealthiest countries on the planet.  I wouldn’t want to live anywhere else, but we’re living in a tensed time and season.  For people on the outside looking in, they just couldn’t imagine like, “Wait, y’all have racism, what?”  So, anyway…

Andrea:  Oh, gosh.  No, it’s so good, though.  I mean, it’s so important.  And it’s so good.  You know, when somebody’s struggling, what’s our natural instinct?  Our natural instinct is to be there for them to hopefully be there for them.  And as a society, we have to acknowledge that that is what is happening.  There is a struggle.  And so, I have heard people talk about, you know, why all lives matter, that sort of thing.  But not all lives are struggling in the same way.  And it is so important for us to understand and try to understand and give voice to be an ally to those who are.

So, as far as being an ally, what would you like to share with the audience about being an ally?

Dee C Marshall:  Yeah, I think just being mindful that one, there’s a great sense of appreciation for allies that are showing up in the season.  Like I think that’s first, and that allies mean well.  I think that’s a second, like I want allies to know this.  There’s a great appreciation, definitely.  This was an all hands on deck battle, fight, and protest.  That’s clear.  But I think in addition, because some would say in the black community, “We’ve been dealing with this forever and so now that y’all are woke, don’t expect for us to just welcome you with open arms and to be nice and kum ba yah.”

That’s why I wanted to level set and say we’re grateful, there are many of us that are grateful.  And you see it, like it’s definitely, the allies, they’re pissed off.  I’m going to be quite honest.  That was good to see.  For me to see my white brothers and sisters pissed, angry, woke and like “What in the hell?”  “What?”  That alone made me emotional.  Now, others of my colleagues would be like, “Well, I’m not impressed, do something.”  But I do want to know, great appreciation, great respect for you, show up.

But here’s the caution and then the advice, like being very mindful of performative allies need to be very mindful of performative allyship.  Being mindful of being front and center and making it about them.  The wall of white moms met well.  They did well.  These were all of the moms last year out in the protest, white moms with bright yellow shirts, they met well and did well.  I think they got a lot of criticism and then they course corrected.  They recognize that they were never to be out in front of the protest.

But to stand with, I think that was the lesson and so for allies to stand with, it’s like, I don’t identify as part of this community.  But I stand side by side with, and that’s what allyship.  I’m not behind, I’m not in front of, but I’m going to stand with.  I don’t identify with the black community, but I stand with that allyship, and making sure that it’s not a one off.  I think that’s a big thing.  It’s not a one off.  You know, it’s not an act, it’s just who you become, that you become as part of your hardwiring.  You have the ability and the lens to see differences and lived experiences of the black community, black people, Latinas, Latinx community, underrepresented individuals, and interrupt right, racism.

Also, what’s important for allies to know is talk to your white people, friends, don’t just talk to the people who are right, who are the black community or underrepresented individual.  No, have these conversations with your white people friends interrupt it, stop supporting financially, you know, racist companies, racist brands, racist people; that’s a big one because those whom you ally want to know still and challenge you on where you’re spending your money, how you’re spending your time.

So, now it’s no longer about allies doing for or standing with the black community and you know, underrepresented individuals.  It’s about how is your actions on the other side, how you’re spending your time and how you’re spending your money.  Are you spending your money with brands that are known that speaks and then making sure it’s not performative, making sure you’re stepping up overtime to support and not a one off and standing with.?

And then the last thing that I’ll say is, because one of my clients, we’re doing some allyship work, and we rolled out this whole allyship framework, which has three pieces to the to the framework.  And one is ally should understand historical context so that they are familiar with, not everything, but at least they understand, you know, the black community.  And again, any other whom your ally for that there are some very sensitive areas that you want to be aware of.  So, it could be, you know, asking somebody to get up, right, just recognizing and why that might be a sensitivity.

A comment about hair, there’s a big issue around hair and textured hair.  And lots of other things historically, understanding that, you know, the world we live in, the systems were all built on white supremacy because the country was built before slavery.  You have to understand like, everything was really built on that.

So, understanding historical content, understanding not everything, not all things, but the top headlines understanding and then understanding and accepting your own privilege,  And although for, you know, my white brothers and sisters, understanding you weren’t part of the committee to bring slaves here, right?  You were not part of that.  You didn’t sign on for that.  In fact, you’re pissed at your ancestors, you’re pissed that you even have that embed in your backstory.  You’re pissed, but you recognize that where you are was a beneficiary, right?

And so, just recognize, so that it’s important for allies to understand.  You’re a beneficiary.  So, never dismissing that racism exists.  Understanding historical context, accepting you know, that racism is real, having those conversations in your own circles, making sure it’s not performative, making sure it’s not a one off.  You know, I tell this to, I have a girlfriend Lindsey, and Lindsey, she’s a white girl champion of all things black.  She could still round up.

But I always like to tell the story of Lindsey and I, because she’s a big supporter ally to the 10th power she is.  And I tell people, and I’ve told her, “Lindsey, in the 60s, we were friends, and we were girls in the inner city, and then the suburbs were built, right?  You went out to the suburbs.  And then you convinced your mom, “Mom, we wanna let Dee and her family, they should move in the house next door.”  “Lindsay, do you understand you are not allowed legally, you were not allowed to sell me the house next to you.  And if you work for the mortgage bank, Lindsey, you are not allowed.”

And so, when I get that context, then, you know, it’s helpful to understand the systemic racism, and also to then understand your privilege, right?  Because, you know, the color of law paints the picture of how wealth was built in this country, and why there’s such disparities between people of color and black people in particular, and white people.  It was built on the systemic racism, of redlining, where we were all together, and then the suburbs were built.  And then you bought the home, black people were able to afford it.  We were not allowed.

And then the equity, this is the beginning of wealth, equity built or obtained in that home was then transferred to the children, and then able to afford health care, able to afford education, Ivy League schools.  And meanwhile, black folks were over there.  They couldn’t afford it at the time.  We could have afforded it, we were already prosperous.  You don’t have to have PhD on this.  We’re all going to make mistakes.  So, I know that was a long-winded response, but I hope that’s helpful for the allyship case.

And, you know, when I shared this last thing I heard from a woman, and she was a white woman.  She shared this, and I thought it was so powerful.  And she shared this with other white people.  She said, “You know what, I’m here as an ally.  But I recognize I cannot speak for black people.”  And so I said, ‘Yep, definitely know that y1ou can’t speak for black people and others, bring us to the table, let us speak for ourselves.”  “Don’t do that, bring us to the table.  Give us the platform, hire us, recommend us, or partner with us.”

But she said something, I was so proud of her, she said, “You know, Dee, I was in a room on clubhouse and it was on a touchy topic, and I got up.”  And she said, “And people criticize me, and they didn’t hear from me as a white woman.”  And I love that.  She said, “You know what, Dee, I understood that.”  She said, “I sat down.  I sat back and I stayed in the room.  And she said to them, “Yes, you’re right, and I’m gonna keep on coming back.”  And that’s what it takes to be uncomfortable.  This is a sticky place and awkward place, but I love that she said, and she knew it’s bad.  But she knew it was from the pain of this country.  But she said, because she’s a real ally, she said, “I’m gonna keep on coming back.”  And I just thought it was so powerful.  So, I’ll end on that.

Andrea: Oh, love that.  Love it.  I do thank you.  Thank you for being here, for sharing your voice in your message with our audience.  And thank you for the continued work that you do to make the world a better place.  And just know that I’m both cheering you on and as I can think of things and come across things and ways to be an ally, I certainly hope to be.

And would you share with the audience where they can connect with you, where they can find you?  What would you like to let them know?

Dee C Marshall:  Yeah, I love this.  I’m hugging you, my friend.  And I’m so glad we’re connected.  I love that this is not just me as a guest on the Voice of Influence, but that this is a continuation of our relationship that we actually know each other, right?  I just love that, and I want to thank you.  I want to thank you for creating this and just you stepping into your space, to be quite honest.  So, thank you for inviting me.  I wanted to do this.  Remember, I’m like, “Nope, I’m getting on.  I’m getting on our calendar, we’re gonna chat.”  And I just thank you for being so open with this, you know.

And I’ll share as I wrap in where folks can find.  I didn’t even know that our conversation would even go over to this, like, you know, but I think it’s good.  I think this is what needed to come through.  But yeah, it’s what needed to come through, rather than me, you know, talking about I’ve had a great life.  I mean, I’m having a good life.  I’m having a great life.  And I even realized that I’m going to go back to this one point and wrap.

But when I was sitting in the White House, I had six years Obama White House access.  And when I was sitting in the White House, and I remember that Michelle Obama introduced us to American history lesson that we didn’t know, that my ancestors built this house.  I’ve been to the White House several times, to the Obamas holiday party.  And I remember going into the powder room, the First Lady’s powder room.  And like my ancestors built this house.  And it was just so powerful.

So, I didn’t know that our story would go here.  But I think this was necessary, and it was a sweet space of us as friends just to have this conversation and to help the listeners.  And I’m so glad and I’m believing that folks who are listening, were able to take away one thing, so that we can all continue this journey together.

So, in terms of where folks can find me, you know, I am everywhere online at Dee C Marshall.  I hang out for business on LinkedIn, of course at Dee C Marshall.  But I play on Instagram.  I like IG the most.  It’s more of me and my personality.  And yeah, www.diverseandengage.com or www.deecmarshall.com is where you can find everything about Dee C Marshall.  So, thank you!  Thank you so much, Andrea, and love being here!  And yeah, until next time. 

Andrea:  Yeah, thank so much!  Thank you for being a voice of influence!

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